Maxim Tsutsikiridze, National Police: Occupiers dragged people to torture chambers simply for not liking them.

How does the police investigate war crimes, how do they "develop" criminals who have decided to flee abroad, and what is happening with crime within the country? In an interview with RBC-Ukraine, the First Deputy Head of the National Police of Ukraine, Chief of the Main Investigative Department, Maksym Tsutsykyrydze, shared insights.

The ongoing large-scale war in Ukraine, which has lasted for three years, has transformed the internal structure of law enforcement agencies. The police have taken on more functions and responsibilities, including the investigation of war crimes. In this context, foreign investigators periodically visit Ukraine to gain experience and demonstrate to Ukrainian law enforcement how to operate within the framework of international law.

In addition to investigating war crimes and directly participating in combat operations at the front, the police are also involved in "developing" those criminals who have chosen to hide abroad. The results of these operations include the detention of fighters from the Wagner Group in Moldova and much more. Moreover, the police have also taken on duties at checkpoints and are patrolling the streets alongside personnel from territorial recruitment centers.

Regarding how criminals are apprehended abroad, how the police investigate war crimes, and what is happening with the crime rate in Ukraine, the First Deputy Head of the National Police, Chief of the Main Investigative Department, Maksym Tsutsykyrydze, spoke in an interview with RBC-Ukraine.

– The most pressing issues in the country over the past three years are related to the large-scale war. The police are also involved in investigating war crimes. Will the dynamics of these investigations change by 2025?

– There is a clear action plan not just for one year, but for five years. In January 2025, we will complete our work and present to the public our indicator for restoring justice - the Strategy for Managing the Investigation of International Crimes Committed in the Context of Armed Conflict.

Over the three years of the full-scale invasion, police investigators have gained immense experience in a very challenging and frightening practice. The war has shaped us into some of the best war crimes investigators in the world, and we are doing everything possible to ensure that justice is restored for Ukraine. As a result of this work, we have documented 143,000 Russian crimes and 3,700 suspicions for crimes related to the armed conflict. At the same time, the experience of our colleagues from Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia suggests that investigating war crimes is not a task for years, but for decades.

This is precisely why we need a Strategy that is already helping to effectively and systematically investigate international crimes, gather crucial evidence, and hold perpetrators accountable. We developed it in collaboration with the Office of the Prosecutor General, the Security Service of Ukraine, the judiciary, international experts, and civil society organizations.

Specialists from the Main Investigative Department of the National Police and leading experts from the Council of Europe were involved in the development of the Strategy. Thanks to this, the plan takes into account both our experience and international standards. The Strategy has six key objectives, two of which are our priorities for 2025: holding the command of the Russian armed forces accountable and developing technological innovations.

It is crucial to hold the commanders accountable, as their orders such as "kill all individuals in black clothing," "kill anyone who enters a specific area," and "liquidate those with patriotic sentiments" have led to the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians. Of course, these orders are not officially recorded in combat logs, but we have learned to document and prove the guilt of the Russian military leadership, including through the use of cutting-edge technologies. There are already nearly fifty suspicions against the commanders of the occupiers for issuing orders for the cruel treatment of the local population.

– What technologies are being referred to?

– We are already actively using facial recognition systems and analyzing satellite images to identify criminals and document crimes. Our interagency database "War Crime," which we have made accessible to all defense forces, currently contains 710,000 files on individuals who may be involved in war crimes in Ukraine. All evidence is digitized and stored electronically on servers with thousands of terabytes of information.

We plan to fully transition the investigation of war crimes to electronic form and further develop the digitization of our investigations. This is because electronic documents cannot be lost or destroyed, and war crimes have no statute of limitations. This will allow us to hold war criminals accountable at any time and in any civilized country. By the way, recently our investigators and operatives, along with law enforcement in Moldova, detained three Moldovans who were Russian mercenaries from 2014 to 2023 and participated in the capture of Bakhmut, the "Debaltseve Cauldron," the battle for Donetsk airport, and so on. This is not a coincidence.

We are examining the activities of dozens of private military companies that have been fighting in Ukraine on the side of the Russian army since 2014, and investigators are tracking their mercenaries across all former CIS countries. In almost every one of these countries, military mercenarism is a serious crime punishable by 7-10 years in prison.

Police investigators have collected evidence of participation in illegal armed formations against 85 Moldovan citizens, and competent authorities are already handling these cases. Information about 58 such mercenaries has also been shared with law enforcement in Kazakhstan - one of them has already been detained in the USA at the border with Mexico. And this is just a small part of the extensive work we are doing for one goal: to prevent war criminals from escaping justice in any civilized country in the world.

– Regarding the investigation of war crimes itself. How do your colleagues work together with foreign investigators?

– As I mentioned, police officers are the first to arrive at the sites where, unfortunately, the shelling occurs. Again, we are dealing with a modern war. There has never been a war like this - using the entire arsenal of technologies and the latest military equipment - until today. We recalled the international experience involving international investigative groups in the investigation of war crimes. In the initial stages, when the de-occupation of Kyiv, Chernihiv, Kherson, and Mykolaiv regions took place, international police officers visited us - both investigators and criminalists. At that time, we perceived them as assistance and partners who would help us and provide guidance, but such a war had not yet been encountered. No one had faced it.

During the training sessions and seminars conducted by our international partners, they teach us to use norms of international legislation and international law, how to apply them correctly so that our evidence meets international standards. For this, we are very grateful to them, truly. However, citing examples of genocide against African peoples when we are under fire from "Orlan" drones or "Shahed" drones, or the Kh-22 missile, where 28 people die at once, is not entirely relevant comparisons.

In such situations, you gather remains from a store and do not immediately understand whose they are. For instance, after a missile strike on a supermarket, it is impossible to determine not only the identity of the victims or their gender but even simply the number of bodies. It is essential to meticulously gather all materials, even sifting through ash, and quickly determine the number and identities of deceased individuals through DNA analysis. Additionally, there are mass graves and exhumations in Izium, Bucha, Irpin, and many individual graves that we have discovered in large numbers.

– Were you there?

– Of course. I was most struck by Izium.

– Why?

– The scale of it. Locals were also involved in the exhumation because they had buried their own people there. They buried everyone indiscriminately - civilians, those who died of natural causes, tortured individuals, and military personnel. Those who could pay were provided with some ritual services, a basic coffin. Those who could not buried their loved ones in a pit.

It was a mass grave. One body on top of another, tied hands, shot. It was a horrific sight. I was there for about two hours. We brought in refrigerated trucks to place the bodies, examined everything, and then I got into an official vehicle, and my driver suddenly jumped out of the car and ran behind a tree, he was sick. Because the smell was so overwhelming that I had become accustomed to it over the hours I spent there.

To what I am leading - foreign investigative groups were also there with us during the exhumation. They helped as they could. But honestly, in my opinion, they came to observe and gain experience. God forbid that our experience be useful to anyone, but...

– You have also been involved in investigative actions at the places where our citizens were held, as far as I understand. I was shocked by the scene in Kherson after its de-occupation. What shocked you?

– In the places of detention, the so-called filtration camps, I would highlight the systemic approach. Wherever the troops went, wherever they occupied, they created such places of unfreedom in the areas of temporary occupation. Again, for torture, to force our citizens to change their pro-Ukrainian position, and for the detention of prisoners of